This is the channel for the discussion of metaphysical and parapsychological subjects. Please keep discussion of these topics to this channel and out of the rest of the server.
@Deleted User - jump
But I think things like those shown on the pictures might come from studios' laziness rather fault of stories being generic. Adaptation, not the story itself, in other words.
i think i heard majority of text is written in kanji
Deleted User
in modern anime girls act like not girls, children act like not children. people are not people. and i have a feeling as if there was a book released a decade ago "7 archetypes you need to include in your anime!" and everyone is using the same templates
god, so much this, especially when it comes to women, I sometimes feel like they never saw a woman irl
7:13 PM
japanese text never is "100% written in kanji", it's a mix of hiragana, katakana and kanji
7:15 PM
and stuff targeted toward kids is usually without kanji (or with a very limited set of kanji, with added furigana)
7:17 PM
in Japan they have sets of "common kanji" that is agreed everyone should know how to read and write, less common words get furigana added when they appear in a newspaper for example
7:19 PM
@Deleted User if you care about learning japanese for real, then you can look into JLPT N5 materials, it covers the most common vocabulary and grammar
7:20 PM
(don't need to take an actual exam of course, though if you want, PJATK in Warsaw organises it every year)
that's an interesting picture. i read that spiritualism/metaphysical practice is a form of escapism and defense mechanism from mental distress, but i didn't expect people involved to notice it and openly admit it(edited)
Aki 💧❄
Why not accept from the start that nothing is magick?
Is your life seriously that boring that after countless dramas you still try to start shit in metaphysics? Just take the damn hidden role.
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Deleted User
that's an interesting picture. i read that spiritualism/metaphysical practice is a form of escapism and defense mechanism from mental distress, but i didn't expect people involved to notice it and openly admit it (edited)
This is actually an interesting point, many veteran magicians adopt a paradoxical mindset in this fashion. First they'll ask if you would practice magick even if you knew nothing would happen, if you say yes, then they get to work, if you say no, your probably not cut out. Magick isn't empirical, but it always seems to do its job just when you need it to. It's practitioners see it as an artform, and thats because it is when looked at from a step back.(edited)
10:45 AM
Most magicians won't even bother trying to scientifically prove its reality, because that's not what matters to them. In a way I guess you could compare it to tulpamancy there. Not many people try to science tulpas anymore, but just like how this community breaks that rule there is scientific magick groups out there too.(edited)
If it turned out that nothing was magick, would that rob the practice of worth?
Deleted User
that's an interesting picture. i read that spiritualism/metaphysical practice is a form of escapism and defense mechanism from mental distress, but i didn't expect people involved to notice it and openly admit it (edited)
For some perhaps, not me, and not for many others, magick is very much based within symbolism and interpretation, there is entire currents dedicated to it being a form of communication with the subconscious, a way to take applied psychology a step beyond. Not all magicians are new age or summoning the goetia
Not to some, it all comes back to interpretation. This also shows that you have probably not paid attention to previous discussions beyond trolling, atleast that's the case if any real magicians have passed through this accursed server. I wouldn't be surprised if you all have never met an actual practitioner
This is actually an interesting point, many veteran magicians adopt a paradoxical mindset in this fashion. First they'll ask if you would practice magick even if you knew nothing would happen, if you say yes, then they get to work, if you say no, your probably not cut out. Magick isn't empirical, but it always seems to do its job just when you need it to. It's practitioners see it as an artform, and thats because it is when looked at from a step back.
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
I'd actually like to see an example of magick doing its work when it needs to. How does it even look like?
Aki 💧❄
Tulpa by definition is imaginary but magick is supposed to be something more than just imagination, isn't it?
I was under this impression as well, but perhaps I am incorrect, based on what Michael Blackwater is saying.
Aki 💧❄
This is actually an interesting point, many veteran magicians adopt a paradoxical mindset in this fashion. First they'll ask if you would practice magick even if you knew nothing would happen, if you say yes, then they get to work, if you say no, your probably not cut out. Magick isn't empirical, but it always seems to do its job just when you need it to. It's practitioners see it as an artform, and thats because it is when looked at from a step back.
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
I'd actually like to see an example of magick doing its work when it needs to. How does it even look like?
In simplest terms, coincidence. A lucky break when needed, something you did a ritual for going for you in just a way that it seems beyond normal, and yet it would never be scientifically repeatable, atleast not on the same scale
11:00 AM
A smart magician never claims to have a science, they simply practice their art without interacting with those who disagree, I guess that makes me the fool for doing so.
In simplest terms, coincidence. A lucky break when needed, something you did a ritual for going for you in just a way that it seems beyond normal, and yet it would never be scientifically repeatable, atleast not on the same scale
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
So it's applying causation to some rituals when you just get lucky? Looks like magical thinking to me
Michael, if you do a ritual (or equivalent, whatever is necessary) and it does not have an effect, how do you experience that? Is it disappointing in any way?
Exactly, it isn't provable, so we don't try. See above, would you practice even if you knew it wasn't real? Would you make a tulpa even if you knew there was zero way to ever prove they are not delusions? They aren't as different as they appear
Nyan
Michael, if you do a ritual (or equivalent, whatever is necessary) and it does not have an effect, how do you experience that? Is it disappointing in any way?
No, I just continue living, don't dwell on magick, once the ritual is done you forget about it, in many ways magick is a form of roleplay, and thats ok.
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11:08 AM
If you seem to have actual effects on your life positively, does it matter it was all an illusion? So long as you are not unstable enough to mix your magick with your day to day perceptions it is harmless.
Candlelight Society 🕯
No, I just continue living, don't dwell on magick, once the ritual is done you forget about it, in many ways magick is a form of roleplay, and thats ok.
This made a question come to mind! Do you think it could be harmful to dwell on the positives of magic? Since you mentioned it's a form of roleplay in many ways, I'm wondering if some of the same pitfalls exist with getting too obsessed with even the positive sides of it.
If you seem to have actual effects on your life positively, does it matter it was all an illusion? So long as you are not unstable enough to mix your magick with your day to day perceptions it is harmless.
Exactly, it isn't provable, so we don't try. See above, would you practice even if you knew it wasn't real? Would you make a tulpa even if you knew there was zero way to ever prove they are not delusions? They aren't as different as they appear
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
For me tulpa is an imaginary companion by definition. I don't play with it hoping for them to be "real" independent people. I just enjoy relationship with my imaginary friends.
Would you still do your rituals if you were convinced they are just wishful thinking, nothing more, nothing less and knew there is no real causal relationship between you doing your ritual and you getting what you want?
My host has been a member of groups that championed the power of positive thinking (under various names). Those groups strongly implied or outright stated that the positive thinking was having a literal physical and spiritual effect on the universe in which we live.
My host saw many people (including close friends, sadly) disempowered by this, robbed of the will to make changes in their lives after feeling the disappointment of their rituals not working. This was compounded by those groups implying that those for whom the rituals did not work were causing it themselves by not being positive enough.
I inherited a dim view of rituals from my host's experiences with these groups. It has only recently occurred to me that positive thinking can be empowering, too, because it primes people to look for and be prepared to take advantage of good things. People who see only negative things can often miss the positive opportunities in front of them (my host has fallen for this trap before!).
All of this is making me think that a balanced approach is possible and even useful, provided it absolutely avoids a reliance on believing something unprovable.
It's good to be prepared for both bad and good things, indeed. Sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we get unlucky, we shouldn't just count on luck but it's good to accept that not everything is going to be under our control.
Aki 💧❄
Just like some Christians claim to have a relationship with their God. But we (well, some of us) know our tulpas are imaginary.
I feel like such a relationship would look more like a relationship between an ant and a human (and even that's probably not far enough of a distance), rather than the typical tulpa-to-host dynamic. But I'm not sure, because infinite power might allow a human to relate to an ant in a way it could understand.
This is something I'm not sure how I feel about. I'm aware that it is sometimes essential (for the person to cope psychologically) for someone to feel in control when they are not. But that doesn't sound ideal to me. That sounds like it could be unstable if the situation changes.
Yeah, people feel more comfortable when they feel like being in control. But instead of giving yourself an illusion of being in control, you could focus on stuff you really have some agency with.
Aki 💧❄
Just like some Christians claim to have a relationship with their God. But we (well, some of us) know our tulpas are imaginary.
that's not what I'm asking about, you know I don't give a shit about gods - but relationships with people are two-way streets and the whole kicker is that you are interacting with someone who has their own feelings, thoughts and views
that's not what I'm asking about, you know I don't give a shit about gods - but relationships with people are two-way streets and the whole kicker is that you are interacting with someone who has their own feelings, thoughts and views
@Spook - jump
I think relationships are not just like that and not just between two people. Don't you have any relationship with your dog? Does they really have their own views and thoughts and feelings of another human being? Dogs are different from other people and so imaginary companions are but it doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with them.
yeah but dogs are still real and have their own (albeit limited compared to humans) agency - if I kick my dog, he will be suffering, if I'll treat him good, he will be happy and his brain (that I have no direct control over) will react positively
It took me this long to get a single message through
12:01 PM
I'll respond to all of you in a little bit, I was enjoying the conversation before my phone decide to hate me
Aki 💧❄
Exactly, it isn't provable, so we don't try. See above, would you practice even if you knew it wasn't real? Would you make a tulpa even if you knew there was zero way to ever prove they are not delusions? They aren't as different as they appear
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
For me tulpa is an imaginary companion by definition. I don't play with it hoping for them to be "real" independent people. I just enjoy relationship with my imaginary friends.
Would you still do your rituals if you were convinced they are just wishful thinking, nothing more, nothing less and knew there is no real causal relationship between you doing your ritual and you getting what you want?
I literally said above that I would, did you not read?
Nyan
My host has been a member of groups that championed the power of positive thinking (under various names). Those groups strongly implied or outright stated that the positive thinking was having a literal physical and spiritual effect on the universe in which we live.
My host saw many people (including close friends, sadly) disempowered by this, robbed of the will to make changes in their lives after feeling the disappointment of their rituals not working. This was compounded by those groups implying that those for whom the rituals did not work were causing it themselves by not being positive enough.
I inherited a dim view of rituals from my host's experiences with these groups. It has only recently occurred to me that positive thinking can be empowering, too, because it primes people to look for and be prepared to take advantage of good things. People who see only negative things can often miss the positive opportunities in front of them (my host has fallen for this trap before!).
All of this is making me think that a balanced approach is possible and even useful, provided it absolutely avoids a reliance on believing something unprovable.
This is a good reason to be skeptical of magick and its sad that this happens often, results based magick can be a cancer to those who fall for it. This positive view cult was called called the Law of Attraction I assume?
Nyan
I feel like such a relationship would look more like a relationship between an ant and a human (and even that's probably not far enough of a distance), rather than the typical tulpa-to-host dynamic. But I'm not sure, because infinite power might allow a human to relate to an ant in a way it could understand.
This is actually a perfect response and is how legitimate Christian monks viewed things, the best book I have on it is called the Cloud of Unknowing, I reccomend it although I'm far from Christian myself
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12:16 PM
On a side note, I really appreciate the skeptical but polite attitude of yours in this conversation @Nyan . I feel like this is a good example of how metaphysics talks should go.
yeah but dogs are still real and have their own (albeit limited compared to humans) agency - if I kick my dog, he will be suffering, if I'll treat him good, he will be happy and his brain (that I have no direct control over) will react positively
@Spook - jump
And if you treat your tulpa good, you will make them and yourself happy. They might not be independent from yourself but I can't see you not being able to form a relationship with them knowing that.
12:47 PM
I literally said above that I would, did you not read?
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
And why would you still do that?
Why do we do anything, why do you talk to voices in your head? I have my reasons, I enjoy my practices and they have served me well. I care little about their empirical abilities
I find a true sense of wonder and life in a ritual. It's an art to me that I find entrancing. It's almost like shifting from my current reality for only a moment, then returning with a fire relit in my soul, if you believe in souls.
As I said there is no chance of empirical evidence in most magick, but I have found that rituals work in my life. Be they delusion or not I care little, so long as work they continue. Many benefits of magick are not results based but experience based, mystical experiences and a way to touch something beyond. It's sounds like the actions of a madman, and that is because it is, but wouldn't one have to be a bit mad to end up in this server?(edited)
If that is your view I cannot change it. I am glad that this conversation atleast did not degrade into mindless insults. Have a good day, I'll probably be posting in here semi often so perhaps we'll discuss this again in the future.
Aki 💧❄
This is actually an interesting point, many veteran magicians adopt a paradoxical mindset in this fashion. First they'll ask if you would practice magick even if you knew nothing would happen, if you say yes, then they get to work, if you say no, your probably not cut out. Magick isn't empirical, but it always seems to do its job just when you need it to. It's practitioners see it as an artform, and thats because it is when looked at from a step back.
@Candlelight Society 🕯 - jump
I'd actually like to see an example of magick doing its work when it needs to. How does it even look like?
Anyway y'all know I'm not (any longer) a believer in magic, though I used to be a fan. Everything magic is good at suggestion is also good at, I'd be willing to say they are the same things. Everything external magic has ever been claimed to do, however, is blatantly no different from random chance and confirmation bias.
4:14 PM
As an internal practice I'm honestly envious, because I think the belief in it allows greater or faster internal effects.
As an external one, I think it should be strongly opposed, because it leads to foolishness like faith healing.
4:15 PM
Basically if there was a magical tradition that didn't claim to do stuff it obviously can't I'd be super down with them.
The official website for the belief-system known as The Cult of Cthulhu. Learn about our teachings, join our communities, and experience the true Cult of Cthulhu.
4:27 PM
The Group has a branch dedicated to testing magick with the scientific method
Candlelight Society 🕯
This is a good reason to be skeptical of magick and its sad that this happens often, results based magick can be a cancer to those who fall for it. This positive view cult was called called the Law of Attraction I assume?
On a side note, I really appreciate the skeptical but polite attitude of yours in this conversation @Nyan . I feel like this is a good example of how metaphysics talks should go.
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